CATCHING UP WITH
PERRY COX AND
FRANK DANIELS
by Brad Howard,
Assistant Editor,
Beatlology Magazine

Abridged version - for the complete interview + an additional interview with Perry Cox, please purchase a copy of Beatlology Magazine, Volume 9 No. 6 (July/August 2007) or better still, don’t miss a single issue, subscribe to Beatlology Magazine!

Since 1983, Beatles collectors have turned to Perry Cox and his Beatles Price Guide (under it’s various titles) when they needed reliable, accurate details and prices for their cherished Beatles collectible recordings. The name Perry Cox is synonymous with honesty and quality. In 2007, with his new, double A-side team of co-author Frank Daniels and publisher Bruce Spizer, Perry has scored a Number 1 hit with his new book, Price Guide For The Beatles American Records. This amazing sixth edition, with its quality and completeness, has certainly set a new standard for price guides with more than 1200 color photographs and the obvious incredible research that has gone into every one of its 330 glossy pages.

Our email interview with the authors started on July 28 and concluded on August 17, 2007. A different set of questions was sent to each author for their responses. Questions and answers were re-sequenced to form this interview.

Brad Howard (BH): First of all, gentlemen, I have to commend you on a visually stunning price guide. It is an impressive work of art and definitely an informative book that every Beatles fan should own and covet. What stands out immediately are the thousands of entries listed in the book. It is more than a price guide and discography, it is a reference standard. How long did it take you to compile the book?

Perry Cox (PC): Well, truthfully, this book has been evolving and compiling for the last 25 years or so. It’s the result of all previous guides and the contributions of thousands of collectors all over the country and the world. But, we actually started gathering it all together and pounding into the book you have before about last August. It was an huge job to say the least, but it was also fun and I’m truly glad and relieved that we finally got it done!

BH: For this new edition, radical changes were made - a new publisher, full color, a crisp, huge new format (9" X 12"), and a new coauthor, Frank Daniels. I don’t mean to put you on the spot, Frank, but could you tell our readers a little about yourself? Are you the same Frank Daniels who wrote A Collector’s Guide To Cook Books in 2004?

Frank Daniels (FD): Yes, I’m the same guy who has cook books in one area of his house and Beatles records all around his house. My motto is “Anything that can be collected WILL be collected.” I have collected Beatles records since 1978 and have been an avid Beatlologist for most of that time. By day, though, I’m a college professor. So, I spend most of my day hours holding discussions with students about math, philosophy, and rock music. I think my background fits together well with Perry’s and Bruce’s, and by that, I mean we make a good team. I’d rather research record labels than math, so I'm usually all over the Internet trying to discover something “interesting” about one obscure format or another.

BH: How and why did Frank Daniels and Perry Cox get together to co-author this book?

PC: When my former partner and long time friend decided to retire, I was faced with replacing him. I had done the last book on my own, and quite “Frankly” I don't like doing it all myself. It’s always been better for the book’s quality to have someone to bounce ideas off of and get some feedback. So, when considering and mulling through all the candidates, I was most comfortable with Frank Daniels. Frank has been a contributor to all my books for years and for many others as well. For many years, he was our “go to” guy for the most trivial of details concerning this or that record or tape, etc.. He was for sure, the most qualified man for the job and I was proud to bring him on as my partner. He remains the “answer man” for myself, Bruce, and many others out there who pick his brains regularly. Since finishing the book, I’ve gotten to know him better as a great human being, as well.

BH: What is Bruce Spizer’s involvement?

PC: Bruce is simply why the book looks so “as visually” impressive as it does. He took my book from being the utility it was, to the art that it is! That is also a huge credit to Frank and to Diana Thornton as well, our very savvy artful layout person! Beyond that, Bruce took a personal interest in the book well above and beyond the role of a normal publisher. He’s a very driven steady paced individual who gets things done like nobody else can. He served as contributing editor and generally was involved with the book from start to finish. Still is. Nobody is better at putting these books together than Bruce and 498 productions. Frank and I both agree on that. Bruce has a way of stressing his point, but still allowing the book to be ours. I really like that about him. We didn’t always agree on everything. But to his credit, he let this be our book which wasn’t easy for him after crafting so many of his own incredible publications. In addition, we utilized his numbering system in the book which will forever universalize the number each entry is assigned and will cross reference to all of his books perfectly. His books are a great companion to this one, and this one to his! Bruce has been the “revival” our hobby and myself has needed to get going again. After all, it was eight years since my last edition! Marriage, kids, homes, cards will sure do that to you!

BH: Frank, or should I say Dr. Frank, I am amazed (although I’m not, really) how up-todate the book is. I know that Perry lives in Arizona and Bruce is in Louisiana, but I’m not certain where you live. Was it difficult getting the three of you together to plan and write the book? Was it all done by phone and email?

FD: Sometimes I’M not certain where I live! No, actually, I'm in rural Nevada -- a GREAT place if you like the outdoors. As you suspected, we usually communicated by phone or online. Perry and I spent years sending information back and forth, and then when Bruce came in, it was pretty much threeway conversation. Sometimes, Perry would tell me, “We just found one of these,” and I’d call Bruce to say, “This isn’t in Capitol 2 [his Capitol Albums book]; have you learned about it since then?” We were calling or writing every day there for a while.

BH: Is the rarest record necessarily the most valuable?

PC: No, the rarest is not always the most valuable. It does apply in many cases and creates a logical pattern when one examines the book relative to values, but there are many cases where popularity reigns supreme in determining value. The butcher cover is a great example of that. No matter what, it always gets a respectable price and rarely fails to sell in any state or condition. Now, figure in the ultimate example of that album which would be a Sealed Stereo First State issue from the private collection of former Capitol Records President, Alan Livingston. Recently, a copy of that album sold for $80,000. Now, we’re talking about what the ultimate condition and ultimate history can do for any given great item with solid provenance! As far as I know, that’s the most ever paid for any one record. I’ve heard rumors that a ‘50s R&B 45 sold for more once, but there’s no evidence of that. An example of some records that are really rare, but don't command the top dollar would be, in my opinion, any truly near mint original black label Capitol album! True near mint is so very rare, and today on average, sells for about $150 to $300 depending on the title. This does not include any rare variants, of course.
If all the lesser condition examples disappeared, they would be $500 and up easy. I guess we could say that about any vintage records, of course. Demand creates value, not rarity. Rarity can be a major contributor to demand. Historic perspective plays a huge role, also. Early VJ singles and LPs in nice shape always do very well, because of the history there. You get the idea...

BH: Based on your experience, is there one disc, that you feel is undervalued as a collectible?

FD: I think there are probably quite a few items that are more rare than their values currently indicate, so picking a single one would be hard. I call these “sleepers,” and I think there are sleepers in every format -- including CD. Since I don't want to dodge the question, the one I usually mention is the original white-label She Loves You single -- with red print -- on the Swan label, and particularly the one with wide print pressed by Monarch. There are so many counterfeit Swans that people don't appreciate how rare the genuine article is. That’s a single that didn’t chart, and there might be one copy of the Monarch pressing that turns up for sale every few years. It’s really hard to find.

BH: As an old fart collector, I find the practice of record companies reissuing product with different labels and formats a bit overwhelming, expensive and a smart marketing ploy. I used to dance to the record company's tune, but now I am more selective as a collector and have passed on many of their releases - like colored vinyl, picture disc singles in 7" and 12" formats, the UK configured American LPs, and the juke box singles. We now have an entire generation of collectors who probably have never played a vinyl record or maybe even a tape. With all of the buzz on iPod technology, is it possible to collect and put a value on company sanctioned downloads, from sites like iTunes? Will these ever become collectible?

FD: This is something that I ask my History of Rock Music class about every semester, and folks asked Bruce and me about it [at the recent Fest for Beatles Fans] in Las Vegas. Right now, there are no actual media involved, so my answer would be, “No.” If they find a way to package the digital files with something interesting and tangible, then maybe. People actually LIKE covers, and pictures, and posters -- all those goodies. The folks buying downloads basically want the song and nothing else. They’ll make their own compilation CDs, but the ones I've talked to aren’t interested in “collecting” anything, per se. A lot of my students say the #1 reason they’d download rather than buy a CD is if, in their words, “There’s only one good song on the CD.” -- so they don’t want to pay for an album of songs they don’'t listen to. I think putting together primo packages would encourage people to buy the media.

BH: Has anyone estimated how much it would cost to own one of everything found in your book?

PC: Great question. My “guesstimate” would be about 1/2 to 3/4 million U.S. dollars give or take to get it all in top condition. And, I'm not considering the sealed stuff which escalates the values. Twenty years ago - about 20% of that price or less. It’s been a great investment for collectors as well as great fun!

BH: I know you get this one all of the time, but are there plans to publish a mass-appeal, softcover version of your book - maybe in b/w - something that can be lugged around the conventions?

PC: Yes, we will at some unknown as yet point, publish the soft cover version. It’s kinda funny. We focused so much on visual and other aspects of quality, we sort of overlooked the practical aspect of having to carry this book around. So, I do understand it and we will get to it. It won’t be for awhile, though.

BH: Was PT Barnum right? Have you had people submit scans of records, labels, and covers, convinced that they had some obscure, newly discovered variation or record, only to be told that their prized possession was a fake? Did they believe you? Could you give us an example or two.

FD: Well, everyone thinks they have an original stereo copy of Introducing the Beatles. I get several of those per year. In that case, I’m ecstatic, when I can tell someone that it’s real. Lately, though, there has been a guy making “fantasy” items -- which he sells on ebay as fantasy pieces. He’s very good about pointing out that no such item really exists. But, when his buyer sells to the next guy, it’s not always that way. So, I get people saying they’ve found a butcher cover reel-to-reel tape, or a Capitol promotional item no one knew about, and I have to ask, “You didn't pay much for that, did you?” I hate asking that! Perry and I were so careful to say -- well, maybe 100 times -- in the book, “If you have any doubts whatsoever, consult a reputable dealer.” Sealed records are another area where that happens. A lot of sealed records are “re-seals.” You don't even know WHAT is inside. Folks, if the guy has a Feedback rating of 15 and he has a full set of sealed Beatles records...it COULD be a great deal, but it wouldn’t hurt to be skeptical.

BH: As hard as I know you try, errors do happen, as well as new discoveries, etc... How can the reader inform you with this helpful information?

PC: Indeed, please send any and all errors, omissions, new discoveries you may find to me at perrydcox@aol.com or Frank Daniels at egweimi@aol.com. We welcome them all! And, I want to remind the readers they can get the latest errata sheet with new releases and corrections, etc. by writing to me at perrydcox@aol.com

BH: I understand that there are three variations of your book being offered. Could you tell us a little about each?

PC: The book itself ($50) is the same quality hard cover book for all three variations. I want to be clear on that. Besides that, we also put together the following versions... Standard Slip Cased Edition: This one features a custom and beautiful slip case that houses and protects the book. It’s also sequentially numbered and limited to 500 copies. Each book is signed by the two authors and the publisher. This one sells for $75. Then, finally we have the Deluxe (Collector’s) Slip Cased Edition. This edition is numbered to only 200 copies. It also comes with a nice bookmark and a clever reproduction of the rare Apple Records 1968 press kit! Very cool and it is also signed by the two authors and the publisher. This one sells for $125.

BH: How can readers purchase your book?

PC: You can order the book online at www.beatle.net or by calling 504-524-2880. ALL books ordered directly from us (even the NON slip case or deluxe versions) will be signed by both authors and the publisher! Is that cool or what!

Thanks a ton, Brad. You help run a great show at Beatlology and I’m a huge fan of you and your fine publication!! Great questions, by the way.

Cheers and happy collecting to all! - Perry & Frank

Questions researched by Brad Howard. Thanks to Bruce Spizer for his kindness and generosity. And, a huge thank-you to Perry Cox and Frank Daniels for putting up with my emails and for typing in their responses. This abridged version assembled by Brad Howard.